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<font size=3>At 10:25 AM 5/27/2005, Sukanta ganguly wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Mike,<br>
I am not sure I do understand what your were trying<br>
to communicate. Let me try and decode this. My basic<br>
point was to respond to Venkata's response about<br>
complete offload without any interaction with the host<br>
system. I disagree with that in its totality as I<br>
think there are dependencies and that needs to be<br>
specified in a formal manner, i.e. in the specs, so<br>
that we do not have multiple proprietary interafaces<br>
which change and application users have to change this<br>
consumption based on individual implementations. <br>
And you just brought up the reasons why what I was<br>
saying seemed to be justfied. Did I read that<br>
correctly?</font></blockquote><br>
You understand correctly. We need defined interface points where
other subsystems can choose to interact with the RDMA
infrastructure. Further, there is a set of issues that have yet to
be addressed, e.g. that go to how a customer uses / manages the attached
fabrics and how their tool chain is impacted or not. <br><br>
Mike<br><br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><font size=3>Thanks<br>
SG<br><br>
--- Michael Krause <krause@cup.hp.com> wrote:<br><br>
> At 06:40 AM 5/27/2005, Sukanta ganguly wrote:<br>
> >Venkata,<br>
> > How will that work? If the RNIC offloads
RDMA<br>
> and<br>
> >TCP completely from the Operating System and does<br>
> not<br>
> >share any state information then the application<br>
> >running on the host will never be in the position<br>
> to<br>
> >utilize the socket interface to use the<br>
> communication<br>
> >logic to send and receive data between the remote<br>
> node<br>
> >and itself. Some information needs to be shared.<br>
> How<br>
> >much of it and what exactly needs to be shared is<br>
> the<br>
> >question.<br>
> <br>
> Ok. It all depends upon what level of integration /<br>
> interaction a TOE and <br>
> thus a RNIC will have with the host network stack. <br>
> For example, if a <br>
> customer wants to have TCP and IP stats kept for the<br>
> off-loaded stack even <br>
> if it is just being using for RDMA, then there needs<br>
> to be a method defined <br>
> to consolidate these stats back into the host<br>
> network stack tool <br>
> chain. Similarly, if one wants to maintain a single<br>
> routing table to <br>
> manage, etc. on the host, then the RNIC needs to<br>
> access / update that <br>
> information accordingly. One can progress through<br>
> other aspects of <br>
> integration, e.g. connection management, security<br>
> interactions (e.g. DOS <br>
> protection), and so forth. What is exposed again<br>
> depends upon the level of <br>
> integration and how customers want to manage their<br>
> services. This problem <br>
> also exists for IB but most people have not thought<br>
> about this from a <br>
> customer perspective and how to integrate the IB<br>
> semantics into the way <br>
> customers manage their infrastructures, do billing,<br>
> etc. For some <br>
> environments, they simply do not care but if IB is<br>
> to be used in the <br>
> enterprise space, then some thought will be required<br>
> here since most IT <br>
> don't see anything as being "free" or self-managed.<br>
> <br>
> Again, Sockets is an application API and not how one<br>
> communicates to a TOE <br>
> or RDMA component. The RNIC PI has been proposed as<br>
> an interface to the <br>
> RDMA functionality. The PI supports all of the<br>
> iWARP and IB v 1.2 verbs.<br>
> <br>
> Mike<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> >Thanks<br>
> >SG<br>
> ><br>
> >--- Venkata Jagana <jagana@us.ibm.com> wrote:<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > rdma-developers-admin@lists.sourceforge.net<br>
> wrote on<br>
> > > 05/25/2005 09:47:00<br>
> > > PM:<br>
> > ><br>
> > > > Venkata,<br>
> > > > Interesting coincidence: I was talking with<br>
> > > someone (at HP) today<br>
> > > > who knows substantially more than I do about<br>
> > > RNICs.<br>
> > > > They indicated RNICs need to manage TCP state<br>
> on<br>
> > > the card from userspace.<br>
> > > > I suspect that's only possible through a<br>
> private<br>
> > > interface<br>
> > > > (e.g. ioctl() or /proc) or the non-existant<br>
> (in<br>
> > > kernel.org)<br>
> > > > TOE implementation. Is this correct?<br>
> > > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > Not correct.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Since RNICs are offloaded adapters with RDMA<br>
> > > protocols layered on<br>
> > > top of TCP stack, they do maintain the TCP state<br>
> > > internally but<br>
> > > it does not expose to the host. RNIC expose only<br>
> > > RNIC Verbs interface<br>
> > > to the host bot not TOE interface.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Thanks<br>
> > > Venkat<br>
> > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > hth,<br>
> > > > grant<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > ><br>
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