[Rdma-developers] Re: [openib-general] OpenIB and OpenRDMA: Convergence on common RDMA APIs and ULPs for Linux

[Sukanta ganguly]

Mike,
   I am not sure I do understand what your were trying
to communicate. Let me try and decode this. My basic
point was to respond to Venkata's response about
complete offload without any interaction with the host
system. I disagree with that in its totality as I
think there are dependencies and that needs to be
specified in a formal manner, i.e. in the specs, so
that we do not have multiple proprietary interafaces
which change and application users have to change this
consumption based on individual implementations. 
   And you just brought up the reasons why what I was
saying seemed to be justfied. Did I read that
correctly?

Thanks
SG

--- Michael Krause <krause at cup.hp.com> wrote:

> At 06:40 AM 5/27/2005, Sukanta ganguly wrote:
> >Venkata,
> >    How will that work? If the RNIC offloads RDMA
> and
> >TCP completely from the Operating System and does
> not
> >share any state information then the application
> >running on the host will never be in the position
> to
> >utilize the socket interface to use the
> communication
> >logic to send and receive data between the remote
> node
> >and itself. Some information needs to be shared.
> How
> >much of it and what exactly needs to be shared is
> the
> >question.
> 
> Ok.  It all depends upon what level of integration /
> interaction a TOE and 
> thus a RNIC will have with the host network stack. 
> For example, if a 
> customer wants to have TCP and IP stats kept for the
> off-loaded stack even 
> if it is just being using for RDMA, then there needs
> to be a method defined 
> to consolidate these stats back into the host
> network stack tool 
> chain.  Similarly, if one wants to maintain a single
> routing table to 
> manage, etc. on the host, then the RNIC needs to
> access / update that 
> information accordingly.  One can progress through
> other aspects of 
> integration, e.g. connection management, security
> interactions (e.g. DOS 
> protection), and so forth.  What is exposed again
> depends upon the level of 
> integration and how customers want to manage their
> services.  This problem 
> also exists for IB but most people have not thought
> about this from a 
> customer perspective and how to integrate the IB
> semantics into the way 
> customers manage their infrastructures, do billing,
> etc.  For some 
> environments, they simply do not care but if IB is
> to be used in the 
> enterprise space, then some thought will be required
> here since most IT 
> don't see anything as being "free" or self-managed.
> 
> Again, Sockets is an application API and not how one
> communicates to a TOE 
> or RDMA component.  The RNIC PI has been proposed as
> an interface to the 
> RDMA functionality.  The PI supports all of the
> iWARP and IB v 1.2 verbs.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> >Thanks
> >SG
> >
> >--- Venkata Jagana <jagana at us.ibm.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > rdma-developers-admin at lists.sourceforge.net
> wrote on
> > > 05/25/2005 09:47:00
> > > PM:
> > >
> > > > Venkata,
> > > > Interesting coincidence: I was talking with
> > > someone (at HP) today
> > > > who knows substantially more than I do about
> > > RNICs.
> > > > They indicated RNICs need to manage TCP state
> on
> > > the card from userspace.
> > > > I suspect that's only possible through a
> private
> > > interface
> > > > (e.g. ioctl() or /proc) or the non-existant
> (in
> > > kernel.org)
> > > > TOE implementation. Is this correct?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Not correct.
> > >
> > > Since RNICs are offloaded adapters with RDMA
> > > protocols layered on
> > > top of TCP stack, they do maintain the TCP state
> > > internally but
> > > it does not expose to the host. RNIC expose only
> > > RNIC Verbs interface
> > > to the host bot not TOE interface.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Venkat
> > >
> > > >
> > > > hth,
> > > > grant
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
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