[openfabrics-ewg] [Openib-promoters] Microsoft chooses not to be on Agenda at Dev. Summit

Thu Nov 9 15:02:01 PST 2006

Tyan works closely with the MSFT Windows CCS product group, and have been
told by MSFT  that the IB WHQL tests are to be done by Mellanox, and our
recent conversation with Mellanox was their driver has not been WHQL
certified yet.  We are interested in getting our next generation cluster
product certified and have the OFA stack integrated into our CCS release as
soon as possible.  Without the WHQL certification, we cannot have our CCS
pre-installed systems shipped with IB integrated.

Does anyone know what the real story is, please?  If Silverstorm is doing
the work, what is Mellanox' role?  Could the real Windows IB WHQL developer
stand up, please?

Ching-ching

-----Original Message-----
From: Woodruff, Robert J [mailto:robert.j.woodruff at intel.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 1:20 PM
To: Ryan, Jim; Sujal Das; asafs at voltaire.com; bboas at systemfabricworks.com;
johann.george at qlogic.com; dford at netapp.com; jriotto at cisco.com; Thad Omura
Cc: openfabrics-ewg at openib.org; openib-promoters at openib.org
Subject: Re: [Openib-promoters] [openfabrics-ewg] Microsoft chooses not to
be on Agenda at Dev. Summit

Jim,

I recall from the last OpenFabrics workshop at IDF that the Microsoft
program manager for
HPC said durring their presentation that Microsoft was actively helping with
getting the stack WHQL'd
on CCS,  working with the people from Mellanox and Fab.

woody

  _____  

From: openfabrics-ewg-bounces at openib.org
[mailto:openfabrics-ewg-bounces at openib.org] On Behalf Of Ryan, Jim
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 12:28 PM
To: Sujal Das; asafs at voltaire.com; bboas at systemfabricworks.com;
johann.george at qlogic.com; dford at netapp.com; jriotto at cisco.com; Thad Omura
Cc: openfabrics-ewg at openib.org; openib-promoters at openib.org
Subject: Re: [openfabrics-ewg] [Openib-promoters] Microsoft chooses not to
be on Agenda at Dev. Summit
Sujal, sorry, but I disagree. But maybe I just didn't explain myself. To my
knowledge WHQL testing has been discussed many times, but because of the
complexity of the stack, it's never been agreed to. I believe additional
work on the testing process was needed.

I also disagree with your statement about MSFT and iWARP. When the issue of
iWARP came up initially I called Jim Pinkerton personally to get his views.
He said he had no choice but to come to OpenIB as an authoritative source of
a single stack for IBA. However, for iWARP, Jim said they intended to
provide support natively in their OS, so there was nothing for us to do for
iWARP support in conjunction with the Windows stack for IBA.

AFAIK, the only work before is to get the IBA stack WHQL certified - I don't
know that there's any iWARP work to be done. I'm happy to be proven wrong,
but that's what I understand

Jim

  _____  

From: Sujal Das [mailto:Sujal at Mellanox.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 10:57 AM
To: asafs at voltaire.com; Ryan, Jim; bboas at systemfabricworks.com;
johann.george at qlogic.com; dford at netapp.com; jriotto at cisco.com; Thad Omura
Cc: openfabrics-ewg at openib.org; openib-promoters at openib.org
Subject: Re: [Openib-promoters] Microsoft chooses not to be on Agenda at
Dev. Summit

I second Asaf on this. 

There has been significant work done on the Windows IB stack.  But just by a
handful of vendors. 

The statement about Microsoft not doing WHQL on the OFA Windows stack is
incorrect.  The statement about Microsoft supporting iWARP only is incorrect
- their Longhorn strategy is transport agnostic.  SAN providers for Longhorn
can still come from OFA - no one is precluding it.  Someone needs to do the
real work.

The OFA Windows stack as it exists today in Beta form has been used by
Microsoft in some of their CCS deployments and is being actively tested
within MS.  There is no lack of support from Microsoft.  There is however,
lack of windows developer participation in OFA, relative to Linux. That is
the crux of the problem.

We can discuss how to fix that.

Sujal

----- Original Message -----
From: openib-promoters-bounces at openib.org
<openib-promoters-bounces at openib.org>
To: jim.ryan at intel.com <jim.ryan at intel.com>; bboas at systemfabricworks.com
<bboas at systemfabricworks.com>; johann.george at qlogic.com
<johann.george at qlogic.com>; dford at netapp.com <dford at netapp.com>;
jriotto at cisco.com <jriotto at cisco.com>; Thad Omura
Cc: openfabrics-ewg at openib.org <openfabrics-ewg at openib.org>;
openib-promoters at openib.org <openib-promoters at openib.org>
Sent: Thu Nov 09 09:55:30 2006
Subject: Re: [Openib-promoters] Microsoft chooses not to be on Agenda at
Dev. Summit

Guys,

As I stated earlier today, not having MS lead the panel or attend at all has
nothing to do with having a session on the OFA windows project.  Voltaire
and Mellanox have been working on this project and invested more resources
than SS.  Voltaire is shipping products based on this project and our OEMs
resell it.  As part of the OFA community Voltaire decided to discontinue its
proprietary stack when this project started. We should treat it as a viable
project.

If needed Voltaire will glad to lead this discussion next week it would be
even more appropriate to do it jointly with MLNX.

Asaf

--------------------------
Asaf Somekh
Voltaire - The Grid Backbone

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan, Jim <jim.ryan at intel.com>
To: Bill Boas <bboas at systemfabricworks.com>; Asaf Somekh; Johann George
<johann.george at qlogic.com>; David Ford <dford at netapp.com>; Jamie Riotto
<jriotto at cisco.com>; Thad Omura <Thad at Mellanox.com>
CC: Open Fabrics <openfabrics-ewg at openib.org>; openib-promoters at openib.org
<openib-promoters at openib.org>
Sent: Thu Nov 09 18:56:38 2006
Subject: RE: Microsoft chooses not to be on Agenda at Dev. Summit

Bill, thanks for raising the question. I'm a little confused by what's
happening from the earlier initiative shown by SilverStorm in developing
and then "controlling" the Windows stack, through some of their
initiatives around version control and so on. It's not clear that's
continuing on, or that it's been handed off to someone

I'm afraid working with MSFT will be frustrating. They don't seem to
want to work with us on WHQL certification, and as you know they have
their plan for iWARP support, so we'll never have something in the
Windows arena that will works as seamlessly as what we envision for
Linux.

My recommendation is to continue the work we've started recently with
SDP and make it clear we'd like to engage more broadly, because we do.
An IBA solution that leaves out Windows isn't nearly as appealing as one
that includes it

I'm certainly open to other ideas

Thanks, jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Boas [mailto:bboas at systemfabricworks.com
<mailto:bboas at systemfabricworks.com> ]
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 8:43 AM
To: 'Asaf Somekh'; Ryan, Jim; 'Johann George'; 'David Ford'; Jamie
Riotto; 'Thad Omura'
Cc: 'Open Fabrics'; openib-promoters at openib.org
Subject: Microsoft chooses not to be on Agenda at Dev. Summit

Microsoft has withdrawn their "talk" on the basis it's a primarily Linux
agenda and attendees will not be that interested. They are saying they
will
have an observer present.

OF Windows seems to be somewhat in a hiatus? As an Alliance we should
figure
out what we want to do about it?

One approach might be to form a small group to work out an approach to
Microsoft to try to form a tighter collaboration between the Alliance,
per
se, and Microsoft as an alternative to each of the IB h/w vendors
working
separately with them, as it appears is now the way it is going??

Microsoft has repeated their strong interest in working with the
Alliance
but there so far the evidence of that work is where????

Thoughts, please!

Bill Boas
VP, Business Development | System Fabric Works
bboas at systemfabricworks.com | 510-375-8840

-----Original Message-----
From: Asaf Somekh [mailto:asafs at voltaire.com <mailto:asafs at voltaire.com> ]
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 2:13 AM
To: Jeff Squyres; Bill Boas
Cc: Open Fabrics
Subject: RE: [openfabrics-ewg] Results of agenda teleconf

Jeff,

Inserted Or and Yaron instead of Voltaire TBDs.

As for the Windows session - I believe we should have it even if
Microsoft doesn't show up. There are issues that we need to discuss
regardless.

Asaf

-----Original Message-----
From: openfabrics-ewg-bounces at openib.org
[mailto:openfabrics-ewg-bounces at openib.org
<mailto:openfabrics-ewg-bounces at openib.org> ] On Behalf Of Jeff Squyres
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:58 PM
To: Bill Boas
Cc: 'Open Fabrics'
Subject: Re: [openfabrics-ewg] Results of agenda teleconf

On Nov 7, 2006, at 11:45 AM, Bill Boas wrote:

> Because I requested it for the many people interested in the agenda 
> that do not wish to find or use the Developers wiki.

I've addressed these points in prior e-mails, so clearly the 
information is not being received somehow.  None of us have any more 
time before SC to continue this debate.  I'll happy continue to 
discuss this over food and beverage while at SC.

So -- see you all at SC!  :-)

--
Jeff Squyres
Server Virtualization Business Unit
Cisco Systems

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